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Complete Demos (3)

Tally Hall remains an eclectic songwriting team because they have four primary songwriters that tend to write their songs on their own and bring them to the band to work on and enhance.  They try to keep a good balance and equal share of songs by each songwriter on their albums.

The writer of each song was consistently written on the back cover of every album/EP until Good & Evil. The Tally Hallmanac is now the best place to find this information. http://www.hiddeninthesand.com/wiki/

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16 − 15 =

Updated on 12/13/18

My definition of Tally Hall’s “older stuff” consists of:

  • Complete Demos (LP)
  • The Pingry EP (EP)
  • Partyboobytrap (EP)
  • Welcome To Tally Hall (EP)

None of these are for sale anymore through the band. My guess is the EPs can now be considered collectors items and will never be pressed again.

Complete Demos has released on Bandcamp, so that’s cool.

In the meantime, you can currently find MP3s of these older recordings lying around the internet if you look hard enough.

Categories: Complete Demos, EPs

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two × 1 =

Complete Demos is the first full length album released by Tally Hall. It was a collection of well-produced demos recorded in Joe’s attic using a digital camcorder and recording each track one by one. Though not available at their online store at this time, you can usually purchase a copy of The Complete Demos if you attend one of Tally Hall’s concerts or if you contact the band.

Category: Complete Demos

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five × two =

Concerts (1)

Tally Hall has some of the most impressive and original songs in current pop music, but they can’t help but acknowledge that one of the reasons their live show became so popular around Ann Arbor was because of a particular cover song they ended their set with. Even after putting away this song for a bit, the demand to have this song put back was too great to deny. That song was Biz Markie’s “Just A Friend” and they still continue to end many of their sets with it, to the delight of those who enjoy their explosive, energetic rendition of this classic 80’s rap song.

Since then, Tally Hall has added a handful of other cover songs they throw in from time to time. Each one is very different and skillfully executed with a profound respect for the original recording plus a dash of Tally Hall flavored spice that takes each one to a higher level.

For a list of songs they’ve covered, please check the Tally Hallmanac.

Many live recordings of these songs can be found by searching YouTube.

Category: Concerts

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15 + 11 =

EPs (5)

Tally Hall remains an eclectic songwriting team because they have four primary songwriters that tend to write their songs on their own and bring them to the band to work on and enhance.  They try to keep a good balance and equal share of songs by each songwriter on their albums.

The writer of each song was consistently written on the back cover of every album/EP until Good & Evil. The Tally Hallmanac is now the best place to find this information. http://www.hiddeninthesand.com/wiki/

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five × four =

There seems to be some confusion about this song, at least for fans born after 1990 or for those who aren’t as proactive on the web as they could be and wonder why it wasn’t on their copy of Marvin’s.

“Just A Friend” is an old, quirky rap song done by a guy named Biz Markie.  This was his biggest hit in the 80’s.  I’m sure you’ll have no problem finding a way to listen to the original version.

A live performance of the song was included on The Pingry EP. As for the studio recording,

“A studio recording of “Just A Friend” was made in July ’06 but did not surface until the Atlantic Records releasing of MMMM in April 2008.  Those who attended concerts after the release of the album were given instructions on how to download the track for free.”

Basically, you were given a small business card with a URL and password to download the song for free.

Categories: EPs, M.M.M.M.

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18 + twenty =

Updated on 12/13/18

My definition of Tally Hall’s “older stuff” consists of:

  • Complete Demos (LP)
  • The Pingry EP (EP)
  • Partyboobytrap (EP)
  • Welcome To Tally Hall (EP)

None of these are for sale anymore through the band. My guess is the EPs can now be considered collectors items and will never be pressed again.

Complete Demos has released on Bandcamp, so that’s cool.

In the meantime, you can currently find MP3s of these older recordings lying around the internet if you look hard enough.

Categories: Complete Demos, EPs

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four × one =

The Pingry EP is a collection of live, acoustic, and one-take performance demos released by Tally Hall in April 2005. Originally, they were recorded to have something to give record companies, in addition to the Complete Demos, to show what other songs they’ve been working on.

It was named after The Pingry School in New Jersey, where Andrew went to high school.  Tally Hall had been a staple band at the annual Pingry School Spring Fling concert for a few years but hasn’t been back since 2005 where they officially released the EP to the public.

The Pingry EP was distributed in standard white paper CD envelopes, the kind with a transparent, round window on the front.  Inside was the CD-R plus a B&W photocopied insert with the track listing and liner notes.

Image of disc
Image of insert

Comment on old FAQ: They first came to Pingry even before the ties, I think in 2003. (I was at Pingry two years behind Andrew.) They were opening for some band no one remembers and in subsequent years were properly placed as the main act. I specifically remember “Good Day” and “Ruler of Everything.” The Pingry EP came their third year at Spring Fling I believe. We may have been among the first outside Michigan to be exposed to the wonkiness. Pingry remains a strong Tally Hall-ic base. When they played it was one of the only reasons many of us would go back and it’s amazing to see them now in New York and all over.

Category: EPs

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12 − ten =

Partyboobytrap and Welcome to Tally Hall are titles to Tally Hall’s first EP’s recorded and produced in 2003/2004. When combined, they made up “The Complete Demos.”  Partyboobytrap is a palindrome and that’s the simple origin of the name.

Category: EPs

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five − 4 =

General Questions (8)

I see this question all the time. So here’s your answer:

They all have access to the account but only a few use it. Joe, Andrew, and Ross are the primary suspects — in that order — when you see a new tweet from the Tally Hall account.

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eleven + four =

Tally Hall has not broken up. They’ve not even officially made any sort of announcement saying what their current status is, but I personally feel the best way to describe their status is “on hiatus.” They’re all doing their own things, if you haven’t noticed, and I think that’s a great way for them all to better discover their individual strengths.  Then, when and if they begin writing together again, things could get great.

Andrew has stayed in the music business; writing solo under the moniker “edu” as well as being a studio musician for such acts as John Legend & Blake Charleton.  In addition to putting out an album called “sketches” in 2012, his work as a songwriter and instrumentalist on John Legend’s album “Love In The Future” earned Mr. Legend a Grammy nomination.  You can find him playing small solo shows around the Brooklyn area.  Andrew contributed to Rob’s solo album, too.  Andrew plans on releasing a follow-up to “sketches” in the future.

Joe has been back at school, actually, living in the southern half of the states. But that didn’t stop his musical endeavors.  He put together “Hawaii: Part II” in 2012 (with Zubin, Ross, and Rob), which is a fantastic album that allowed him to dump out a lot of music he’s had in his head for years. In 2014, Joe released “Hawaii: Part II, part ii” which provided fans with outtakes and demos of the original album.  The same year, a video game was created, based on “Labyrinth”, one of the album’s songs.

Rob has probably been the most visible member since Tally Hall’s last album. He’s made his living as a songwriter in Los Angeles and has saw success writing fun, little songs on the side (see: Shia Labeouf, Christian Bale Is At Your Party).  In April 2014, he released his debut solo album, “Not A Trampoline” which was warmly embraced by fans of Tally Hall.  He’s been releasing some very creative music videos, including one for the song “Perfect”, otherwise known as “29 Celebrity Impressions, 1 Original Song” which went viral and garnered an astounding 5 million views on YouTube in 4 days )now over 10 million). The video was then revealed to be an elaborate hoax by way of another video, which also went viral.  Rob was able to top this in October 2014 with the release of “Shia LaBeouf Live“, which was incredibly successful, and was hailed by the likes of Jimmy Kimmell and Rainn Wilson, who called it “THE GREATEST VIDEO OF ALL TIME“. Joss Whedon said: “All art will now be measured by this great work.

Ross & Zubin also went back to school and though Ross continues to pop up here and there as a producer, percussionist, and DJ as “Mr. F“. His main focus has been school. He graduated from UofM with a 4.0 science GPA and is attending Yale for grad school.

Zubin’s also focusing on school and aside from appearing on Hawaii: Part II, has not done much of anything in the way of music in the last few years.

But the question you want to know is, will they ever come back together as “Tally Hall”? In the opinion of this humble Tally Hall Fan Headquarters moderator: Yes, eventually, but with not as much push so they can keep their full-time jobs. It will be a casual thing. They were kids when they put their lives on hold the first time. They could afford to do it then. Now they’re adults and making the band a full-time thing is a much bigger risk.

In February 2014, Andrew said “There have been talks of a new record for a long time… We’ve got a ton of material in the vault, lots of new tunes, but we’re all doing our own thing now. Rob (Cantor) has a solo record coming out this year, and I worked on couple of tracks for that. Joe (Hawley) is in a writing phase for some potential Tally Hall tunes. So it’s on our minds, but everybody’s going their own way for the moment.”

So yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if they recorded some things together here and there, perhaps remotely. Think in terms of what they did for Hawaii: Part II. Touring is a whole other monster. That will mean getting vacation time from work and school timed right for everyone.

Again, these are all my own educational guesses based on the impressions I get from them and applying my own knowledge of trying to be in a band while working full-time. I could be completely wrong. But if you’re getting frustrated because you are waiting for them to put out new music, relax. Don’t hold your breathe any longer. Enjoy what the members are doing outside of Tally Hall and hope for the best.

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18 − 9 =

I knew who Bora was, but Trevelyn posed a question I had not ever thought about before.  How did Bora become who he is, in regards to Tally Hall?

So I asked the man himself, Bora Karaca, and this was a good majority of his response:

“The short answer is I am Tally Hall’s mascot.

I heard about Tally Hall when I was a… freshmen in college? My dad went to medical school with Dr. B, who is in a group practice with Dr. Cantor, Bobby’s dad. Dr. B told me Bobby started a band and he couldn’t get over the fact that he called it “Tally Hall”, the name of our Michigan Disneyland. It was just a lame strip mall with delicious greasy pizza and Marvelous Marvin’s in the corner, but as children there was no better place.

What? I went to a show, I loved it, and formally met Bobby and Hawls (very nice people). I wanted a signed CD, so I invited Bob to a mixing session I was doing. He was wearing a black fleece and those torn jeans with experience. We had a long chat and I enjoyed his rapport.

Party is Bora +1.

The Complete Demos he gave me had his signature above his picture, in silver sharpie. I approached J-dawg next, anticipating completion of all the autographs. This was my first proper conversation with him, and we had a long talk about recording the album, and I suggested ways to improve his recording abilities. It was clear that we were cut from the same cloth.

Joe has joined your party!

Andy Witz may have walked up the stairs at that point, where I properly introduced myself. He was very shy and did not join the party. I went to every show of theirs afterward, where I met Zhub after a Live @ Leo’s gig, and R-sky and Hutch after a Michigan Union gig (he seemed completely uninterested in me). I don’t really remember details, but I think I just obnoxiously offered help at shows, and as a recording engineer.

So umm….what? Josephine asked if I was interested in recording the band’s HOT NEW SINGLE, “The Bidding”, so I did. They must have decided I wasn’t completely incompetent, so we recorded some new demos in a Music School classroom. Or did the Bidding recording come after that? Maybe you should…look that up. That eventually became the Pingry EP? I don’t have it so I don’t know.

I was axed to help at various blind pig shows, and eventually some random…out-of-state shows. And then they asked me to come on tour with them several times*. Those were fun.”

*He went on tour with them as the band’s roadie.

Now, Bora can be found in Los Angeles engineering sound and has regular appearances on Tally Hall’s Internet Show. Bora is also a founding member of the now-on-indefinite-hiatus, Ann Arbor based, Metal/Jazz/Experimental band “Cojum Dip

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thirteen + twelve =

Zubin Sedghi (Zoo-bin Sed-jee)*
Rob Cantor (Can-ter or Can-tour)
Andrew Horowitz (Whore-o-wits or Har-uh-wits)
Ross Federman (Fedder-min)
Joe Hawley (Haul-ee)

*This is the common English pronunciation and not necessarily true when in its original, native dialect.

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fourteen − thirteen =

In an effort to stand out amongst the dozens of other great college bands in the Detroit area (and abroad), the idea was brought up to not dress in your typical t-shirt and jeans outfit and not simply hope that your music catches the audience’s attention. With classy and colorful attire, they immediately are noticed visually and it’s my belief that most people just have to listen to what these guys in ties sound like… initially out of curiosity. A few minutes into the set and they’ve caught the attention of everyone’s eyes and ears. It definitely worked and has since become their most unique and stand-out feature.

It also serves up a subconscious effect of showing 5 different personalities.

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11 − 6 =

At first it can be difficult to get everyone straight. But once you know, you know forever.

Joe is the red tie. He plays guitar, sings, and is one of the 4 main songwriters.

Rob is the yellow tie. He plays guitar, sings, and is one of the 4 main songwriters, too.

Zubin is the blue tie. He plays bass, sings, and is one of the 4 main songwriters, too.

Ross is the silver/gray tie. He plays drums and tells wonderful stories.

Andrew is the green tie. He plays piano and percussion, sings occasionally, and is one of the 4 main songwriters.

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one × 3 =

All of the members of Tally Hall did attend University of Michigan. Joe, Rob, and Andrew finished all four years, while Zubin only finished three and Ross only finished two. Joe majored in creative writing and film. Zubin majored in biology. Rob majored in Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology and Non-Professional Music. Ross majored in Pre-Health and Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology as well. Andrew majored in Composition and English.

Since the release of Good & Evil, Ross & Zubin have gone back to school.

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one − 1 =

They’re all pretty versatile.  Zubin started out as a drummer before turning bassist.  Joe composes much of his compositions on keyboards as well as guitar.  I’ve never known Rob (guitar), Andrew (piano) or Ross (drums) to play other instruments but that doesn’t mean they can’t.  

For a list of specific kinds of instruments they play, check out the Tally Hallmanac: http://www.hiddeninthesand.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tally_Hall#Equipment_List

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nineteen − twelve =

Good & Evil (1)

Tally Hall remains an eclectic songwriting team because they have four primary songwriters that tend to write their songs on their own and bring them to the band to work on and enhance.  They try to keep a good balance and equal share of songs by each songwriter on their albums.

The writer of each song was consistently written on the back cover of every album/EP until Good & Evil. The Tally Hallmanac is now the best place to find this information. http://www.hiddeninthesand.com/wiki/

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two × 5 =

Lyrical Content (7)

Tally Hall remains an eclectic songwriting team because they have four primary songwriters that tend to write their songs on their own and bring them to the band to work on and enhance.  They try to keep a good balance and equal share of songs by each songwriter on their albums.

The writer of each song was consistently written on the back cover of every album/EP until Good & Evil. The Tally Hallmanac is now the best place to find this information. http://www.hiddeninthesand.com/wiki/

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3 × 3 =

Best answer I can come up for this is:  whatever you want it to be!

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five × five =

The genius of this song never ends.  But your question has debatable answers depending on your interpretation of a true haiku.

Each verse is just slightly off of the traditional 17 syllable English-written haiku by one or two syllables except the verse in the middle,

“La Da De Diddum
La Da Da Dum Do Diddle
Dum Do La De Do”

which satisfies the definition of a haiku.

Additionally, the verse Joe sings is cleverly written because he’s messing up a rhyme while telling about how he is no good at rhyming:

“I’ve never thought much
Of formulaic verse anyway
And rhymes are not my fort(e)”

Good stuff.  Probably one of the most cleverly written songs I’ve ever known of and surely one of my favorite Tally Hall songs.

Edit:  It’s since been pointed out that “fort” is an acceptable alternative pronunciation of forte.

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11 + 19 =

“On booty duty like your name was Eddy Thatch.” is the lyric in question.

When I explain who Eddy (or Eddie) Thatch is, the lyric will finally make sense. Are you ready?

“The true identity of Blackbeard differs between official records, personal accounts, and fictionalized history. Edward Teach or Edward Thatch or Edward Drummond was most likely born in Bristol, England around 1680 (Although some unverifiable reports say he was from Jamaica, London, or Philadelphia). Like many other young men of his time, he probably served aboard a British privateer in the West Indies during the War of the Spanish Succession (Queen Anne’s War) and chose piracy over unemployment at war’s end.”

That’s right!  Eddy Thatch is one of the assumed names of the legendary pirate Blackbeard.

Source: http://www.thepiratesrealm.com/Blackbeard.html

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eighteen − fifteen =

Why, those initials would stand for “What Would Tally Hall Do?” of course!

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twenty − 12 =

No, It’s not. There is a long story behind that. It was originally a typo in the Toy Orchestra version, but everyone that had been in that got a laugh about it. So, Andrew decided to keep it that way. Of course, since Joe wasn’t in Toy Orchestra, he said something along the lines of, “Oh. I always just thought it was whenever Ross was telling a story and it got all messed up.”

You can watch for this in the Wall Party ’06 videos, at the end of The Whole World And You. https://youtu.be/qgoXmvICPoI?t=106

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17 + fourteen =

There’s a faint little backwards voice at the last few seconds of the disc while the sound of the ocean can be heard.  It’s actually Marvin Yagoda himself saying “Wouldn’t the world be better off if we took nonsense more seriously?”

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12 + 4 =

M.M.M.M. (16)

Tally Hall remains an eclectic songwriting team because they have four primary songwriters that tend to write their songs on their own and bring them to the band to work on and enhance.  They try to keep a good balance and equal share of songs by each songwriter on their albums.

The writer of each song was consistently written on the back cover of every album/EP until Good & Evil. The Tally Hallmanac is now the best place to find this information. http://www.hiddeninthesand.com/wiki/

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7 + seventeen =

There seems to be some confusion about this song, at least for fans born after 1990 or for those who aren’t as proactive on the web as they could be and wonder why it wasn’t on their copy of Marvin’s.

“Just A Friend” is an old, quirky rap song done by a guy named Biz Markie.  This was his biggest hit in the 80’s.  I’m sure you’ll have no problem finding a way to listen to the original version.

A live performance of the song was included on The Pingry EP. As for the studio recording,

“A studio recording of “Just A Friend” was made in July ’06 but did not surface until the Atlantic Records releasing of MMMM in April 2008.  Those who attended concerts after the release of the album were given instructions on how to download the track for free.”

Basically, you were given a small business card with a URL and password to download the song for free.

Categories: EPs, M.M.M.M.

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eighteen − twelve =

Best answer I can come up for this is:  whatever you want it to be!

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sixteen − 4 =

The genius of this song never ends.  But your question has debatable answers depending on your interpretation of a true haiku.

Each verse is just slightly off of the traditional 17 syllable English-written haiku by one or two syllables except the verse in the middle,

“La Da De Diddum
La Da Da Dum Do Diddle
Dum Do La De Do”

which satisfies the definition of a haiku.

Additionally, the verse Joe sings is cleverly written because he’s messing up a rhyme while telling about how he is no good at rhyming:

“I’ve never thought much
Of formulaic verse anyway
And rhymes are not my fort(e)”

Good stuff.  Probably one of the most cleverly written songs I’ve ever known of and surely one of my favorite Tally Hall songs.

Edit:  It’s since been pointed out that “fort” is an acceptable alternative pronunciation of forte.

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five × 1 =

There’s a ton of slight, little differences throughout, but if you’re looking for significant ones, the fan community list the following:

  1. The intro to Banana Man
  2. The transition of Welcome to Tally Hall into Taken For A Ride
  3. The robot effect on Andrew’s voice in Taken For A Ride
  4. The speed of The Bidding
  5. The intro to Just Apathy
  6. Zubin dies at the end of The Whole World And You
Category: M.M.M.M.

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one × one =

“On booty duty like your name was Eddy Thatch.” is the lyric in question.

When I explain who Eddy (or Eddie) Thatch is, the lyric will finally make sense. Are you ready?

“The true identity of Blackbeard differs between official records, personal accounts, and fictionalized history. Edward Teach or Edward Thatch or Edward Drummond was most likely born in Bristol, England around 1680 (Although some unverifiable reports say he was from Jamaica, London, or Philadelphia). Like many other young men of his time, he probably served aboard a British privateer in the West Indies during the War of the Spanish Succession (Queen Anne’s War) and chose piracy over unemployment at war’s end.”

That’s right!  Eddy Thatch is one of the assumed names of the legendary pirate Blackbeard.

Source: http://www.thepiratesrealm.com/Blackbeard.html

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five × four =

For the record, this method of annotation appears on all track listings for every album.

Contrary to UNpopular belief, the name(s) next to each song indicate who wrote the song.  Up to this point, the way the band typically works is that each songwriter works on their songs individually and then once they’re fairly near completion, they take the songs to the group to iron it all out.

So, he who wrote the lyrics is the same person who wrote the music.  Consequently, this also usually results in the same person being the lead singer of the song.

Category: M.M.M.M.

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8 + twelve =

For the first printing, due to a mistake at the printer’s, the Zubin-page in the lyric sheets was colored purple instead of blue. Also, the strip on the side of the CD case had a typographical error, and reads “Marvin’s Marvelous Mechancial Museum” as opposed to “Mechanical”. Both of these errors were fixed for the 2006 re-release.

If your CD case or lyric sheets are a bit out of whack, you’ve got yourself a first printing! More information:  CLICK HERE

Of course, if you have the 2008 re-re-issue of MMMM, then you’ve got a completely updated cover and booklet.  You can tell the differences here: http://www.hiddeninthesand.com/wiki/index.php?title=Marvin%27s_Marvelous_Mechanical_Museum_(Album)

Category: M.M.M.M.

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11 − 7 =

Joe does the voice of Mr. Moon in “Spring And A Storm” but of course, he’s using a vocal effect to lower the pitch of his voice. On a related note, the children who are speaking to Mr. Moon are 2 students of Joe’s teacher-mother.

Category: M.M.M.M.

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14 − twelve =

Why, those initials would stand for “What Would Tally Hall Do?” of course!

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seventeen − five =

All the songs on Marvin’s except for Haiku are redone versions of older songs. Here’s the etymology of Marvin’s Marvelous Mechanical Museum’s tunes:

Good Day 
Originally on the “Party Boobytrap EP”, then moved to “Complete Demos” unmodified. Apart from the orchestration, there were no major changes when updated for MMMM.

Greener 
Also from “Party Boobytrap EP” and “Complete Demos.” When moved to MMMM, the “tissues get used” verse was removed.

Welcome to Tally Hall 
Originally from the “Welcome to Tally Hall EP” and moved to “Complete Demos.” When moved to MMMM, there were some slight word changes, such as “homophonic” to “heterophonic.” The intro and outro are new, and the opening notes of the song were originally not NES-sounding.  Live versions of Welcome to Tally Hall in the very, very early days had completely different lyrics at the Zubin verse than they do now. The lyrics were redone just before the recording for Complete Demos. The original version listed the band members by name, including Steve Gallagher, who left.

Taken for a Ride 
Originally from the “Pingry EP”. Changes when moved to Marvin’s include synthesizing Andrew’s voice, and including orchestration…the original version was acoustic and done with only vocals and piano.

The Bidding 
Also from Pingry, but not acoustic. This song, like Good Day, changed very little in its transition to MMMM.

Be Born
Originally from Pingry, this track was also acoustic and used only vocals, guitar, and the melodica. There was a minor lyrical change to make the song flow easier about half-way through, however apart from additional orchestration this song experienced little change.

Banana Man 
Uniquely, this song appeared on both “Party Boobytrap EP” and “Welcome to Tally Hall EP” before being moved to “Complete Demos.” A verse which consisted only of whistling was removed, the verse AFTER the whistling was removed, and some minor lyrical changes ocurred in the transfer to Marvin’s, in additional to re-orchestration.

Just Apathy 
Originally from the “Welcome to Tally Hall EP” before moving to “Complete Demos.” In its transition to Marvin’s, a line at the beginning of the song was redone to omit a curse word. Apart from this, lyrics, and even orchestration, were very similar, though the song’s tempo was increased from its noteably slower predacessor.

Spring and a Storm 
Originally an unreleased demo only available by sifting through Google’s cache for one of Tally Hall’s online song depositories. Orchestration, voices at the “Mr. Moon” verse, and the lyrics of that verse were completely changed. The “whether ever a heaven or hell” was changed to “Or wherever you were before you were,” etc.

Two Wuv 
Originally from “Welcome to Tally Hall EP” and moved to “Complete Demos.” The telephone call verse was originally a dialogue explaining the origin of the song. Apart from this, and orchestration, the Marvin’s version differed very little.  The original version didn’t fade out, though.

Haiku
Brand spankin’ new. It’s possible that some Tally Hall insiders knew of it before its release, but no public performance or available recording exists to suggest that, prior to Marvin’s, this song existed anywhere outside Tally Hall’s practice or recording sessions.

The Whole World and You 
The first Tally Hall recording is from “Pingry EP,” though prior to that it was a song composed by Andrew and performed by “Toy Orchestra.” That version of the song is still available for download through Toy Orchestra’s webpage (www.toyorchestra.com). The orchestration was modified, however no noteable lyrical changes ocurred; sotries remain sotries.

Ruler of Everything 
Originally from “Party Boobytrap” and moved to “Complete Demos.” A newer version, modified by Joe, was placed on the internet with few major changes apart from additional sound effects. The Marvin’s version added the “In the gallows” verse and, in turn, removed the “Number your thumb” verse. The orchestration of this song was completely different, and the lead-up by 13 was a convention made specifically for the Marvin’s version.

Hidden in the Sand 
This was a secret track on both “Complete Demos” and MMMM. Its move from “Complete Demos” to MMMM was marked only by additional background sound. No lyrical changes or orchestration changes ocurred.

More information: http://www.atmosphere.be/releases/tally_hall/

Category: M.M.M.M.

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12 − four =

Yes, it really is Mary Kate (and/or Ashley) on Two Wuv! It’s actual sound clips gathered up from one (or more than one) of their movies. I don’t know exactly what movie(s), though. Feel free to comment and let me know.

Category: M.M.M.M.

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one × 4 =

There might have been if Marvin wasn’t asked first.  The band checked with him as soon as they decided that’s what they wanted to call the album.  Not only did he agree to allow them to use the name, but he even let them take apart some of the machines to record the innard sounds as well as just the typical atmospheric jumble of tick-tocks, clink-clanks, plink-plonks, buzzes, whirly-do’s, whistles and bells that you hear when you walk around the Marvelous Museum of Marvin’s.  You’ll hear them throughout the CD.

Category: M.M.M.M.

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13 − 10 =

Yes indeed. Located in Farmington Hills, MI (just outside Detroit), Marvin’s Marvelous Mechanical Museum is an eclectic arcade with piles upon piles of nostalgia and fun. See more at www.marvins3m.com.

Category: M.M.M.M.

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3 + seven =

No, It’s not. There is a long story behind that. It was originally a typo in the Toy Orchestra version, but everyone that had been in that got a laugh about it. So, Andrew decided to keep it that way. Of course, since Joe wasn’t in Toy Orchestra, he said something along the lines of, “Oh. I always just thought it was whenever Ross was telling a story and it got all messed up.”

You can watch for this in the Wall Party ’06 videos, at the end of The Whole World And You. https://youtu.be/qgoXmvICPoI?t=106

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3 × four =

There’s a faint little backwards voice at the last few seconds of the disc while the sound of the ocean can be heard.  It’s actually Marvin Yagoda himself saying “Wouldn’t the world be better off if we took nonsense more seriously?”

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2 × one =

Rob Cantor (Solo Work) (1)

I reached out to the man who spoke them, Andrew Laurich, and his response was: “The keys to the kingdom are locked up somewhere in some email exchange between young Cantor and myself. But consider that what’s important is less what is said than how it is said.”

Meanwhile, fan Ryan Speakman offered this interpretation:

Ok, I can’t really hear the first half because it is Really unclear and there is one word I am not really sure about it, but here is what the last half says: Words in braces could be wrong Spanish:

“[All] moves
Never above and can never be
Here it is with nothing to say
Your brothers, [and wicked] they want to hear
Dreams are welcome
Flamingo Pink and black
[Nothing] moves
Never above and it can’t
Here it is with nothing to say
Your brothers [and the bad (or wicked)]
Want to listen
Dreams make it happy
Flamingo Pink and black.”

It is pretty rough and if someone can get a clearer audio of just the Spanish part, I could probably do a better job.

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2 × one =

Useless Info (7)

Probably not.

I mean, maybe. But probably not.

Joe tends to delete his various social media accounts (Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, etc.) from time to time. Not sure why. It’s just something he does. Give it a week or two and he’s usually active again.

Category: Useless Info

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eighteen − fifteen =

Yes! During the auditions of Season 8 of American Idol, Vaughn English of Prairie Village, KS hopped on the audition block weilding a banana and wearing a yellow and orange suit to sing Tally Hall’s Banana Man.

The judges were confused and amused but quickly discarded Mr. English and moved on to the next audition.

Watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htkFh6qLehU

Vaughn English dancing gif
Vaughn English on American Idol
Category: Useless Info

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twenty + 1 =

If the other FAQ wasn’t enough for you, here’s a little more trivia:

Rob’s high-school band “listedBlack” featured Rob on guitar,  Zach Krasman on bass, and Zubin on (believe it or not) drums.  listedBlack continued until 2002 when Rob moved to Ann Arbor.

They also had an EP, “Songs About Girls,” which included tracks entitled “Passing,” “Effort and Apathy,” “Almost Raining,” and “Yearbook,” the latter of which went on to become a track on Tally Hall’s Pingry EP. An individual assumed to have gone to high-school with the listedBlack crew reports that other songs were written, but were only performed live, and were probably not recorded.

Almost a year after the band’s demise, Zubin moved to Ann Arbor, picked up the bass,  and the primordial Tally Hall lineup began to take shape.

THERE. There’s your minuscia. Now lemme alone.

A livejournal stumbled upon during a google search for listedBlack turned up the following quote: “…but yeah, the show was great, the band sounded fantastic. in high school when it was rob, zubin, zach, and bj as ‘Listed Black’ i don’t think i ever assumed it would turn into anything big and exciting. good for them. i’m so proud of my friends.” Apparently there was ANOTHER member of the band named BJ. Information on listedBlack can therefore be at best described as shady. I’ll see what I can learn/add to this puzzle…

Category: Useless Info

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4 × 5 =

After travelling halfway around the world, spending over 37 million dollars, and losing 10 of  my 12-Man travel group, I tracked down Joe Hawley himself. I found him as he was plucking the strings of a homemade guitar made from two empty sea-turtle shells, elephant whiskers, and sloth vertebrae.  He looked up and gave me a smile as I struggled to hold my beaten, bruised, and dehydrated body up against the wall of his “apartment” sized house.  I greeted him with a handshake and asked him your question.

As he began to play the beginning to a new song hes writing, he whispered to me…. “11.5”

Anything else you need to know?

Category: Useless Info

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1 × one =

Full question:
“My friend has an old Tally Hall shirt which has a chinchilla on it and chinchillas are listed as one of Tally Hall’s facebook interests.  Is there any special reason or inside joke or something about the band’s interest in chinchillas?”

The Chinchilla was the original logo for Tally Hall. I think maybe one of the member’s owned one? I’m not sure why they held such an interest in it but they pretty much dropped the chinchilla obsession around Spring 2005.

Category: Useless Info

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three + six =

Maybe!  Sort of.  It’s open to interpretation.

The story goes:  Joe Hawley, a member of SAG, has done a few commercials in his day.  One of them was him singing in a Children’s Hospital commercial.  There is an episode of The Simpsons entitled “Rosebud” that briefly mimics the scene Joe did.  Although there’s no proof that it was indeed a mock of the commercial, the similarities were enough to get some people, including Joe, wondering about the possibility.

In a July ’08 conversation, however, Joe indicated his opinion these days is that the chances are very slim and he doesn’t necessarily hold the belief that it’s true.

Category: Useless Info

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9 − 3 =

Steve Gallagher was the original drummer of Tally Hall. He was replaced by Ross Federman after dropping out in 2004.

Category: Useless Info

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19 + 13 =

Videos/Internet Show (9)

Full question:
“Do you have any idea where they filmed Two Wuv? At least the creepy funhouse part? Because MAN that place is creepy. And I am curious about it.”

I’m happy to announce that The Tally Hallmanac now exclusively holds just about all the information you need about the brilliant music video for Two Wuv (AKA The 6th Episode of Tally Hall’s Internet Show “Mary Kate & Ashley”)

https://www.hiddeninthesand.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mary-Kate_And_Ashley_(T.H.I.S._Episode)

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five × 3 =

This will depend on what you’re looking for.  But I wanted to make this FAQ entry to try and cover all bases.

Often times, they may take down a video for any reason they want; but I’m guessing it’s usually because they don’t think it’s good enough to be seen anymore.

In May 2010, their YouTube page was hacked and almost ALL videos were deleted.  This included all the Boralogues, singles from Tally Hall’s Internet Show, random sketches, and music videos.  They used this as an opportunity to re-upload in higher-resolution formats and organize things better, too.

At the time of writing this entry on 5/28/10, all the singles from T.H.I.S. were back up as well as the videos for Banana Man, Good Day, Greener, Dream, Two Wuv, and The Whole World And You (which did NOT get deleted during the hack). For the first time, Banana Man could be seen in 480p (hey, it’s better than what it was…). Other videos that were spared in the hack were the NYC series, AESTAVALIA, and Misfortune.

Perhaps you’re looking for videos from 2005 or before?  If so, many of them were taken offline at some point and then the originals were wiped out during a hard drive crash Joe suffered… so they’ll never be seen again, most likely.

You can find a list of videos Tally Hall has had up over the years on the Tally Hallmanac:
http://www.hiddeninthesand.com/wiki/index.php?title=Definitive_Tally_Hall_Video_List
(feel free to add to it if you see something missing!)

Also, some older videos were captured and re-uploaded by a fan over here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/NivekBackwards#g/u

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16 − 14 =

I knew who Bora was, but Trevelyn posed a question I had not ever thought about before.  How did Bora become who he is, in regards to Tally Hall?

So I asked the man himself, Bora Karaca, and this was a good majority of his response:

“The short answer is I am Tally Hall’s mascot.

I heard about Tally Hall when I was a… freshmen in college? My dad went to medical school with Dr. B, who is in a group practice with Dr. Cantor, Bobby’s dad. Dr. B told me Bobby started a band and he couldn’t get over the fact that he called it “Tally Hall”, the name of our Michigan Disneyland. It was just a lame strip mall with delicious greasy pizza and Marvelous Marvin’s in the corner, but as children there was no better place.

What? I went to a show, I loved it, and formally met Bobby and Hawls (very nice people). I wanted a signed CD, so I invited Bob to a mixing session I was doing. He was wearing a black fleece and those torn jeans with experience. We had a long chat and I enjoyed his rapport.

Party is Bora +1.

The Complete Demos he gave me had his signature above his picture, in silver sharpie. I approached J-dawg next, anticipating completion of all the autographs. This was my first proper conversation with him, and we had a long talk about recording the album, and I suggested ways to improve his recording abilities. It was clear that we were cut from the same cloth.

Joe has joined your party!

Andy Witz may have walked up the stairs at that point, where I properly introduced myself. He was very shy and did not join the party. I went to every show of theirs afterward, where I met Zhub after a Live @ Leo’s gig, and R-sky and Hutch after a Michigan Union gig (he seemed completely uninterested in me). I don’t really remember details, but I think I just obnoxiously offered help at shows, and as a recording engineer.

So umm….what? Josephine asked if I was interested in recording the band’s HOT NEW SINGLE, “The Bidding”, so I did. They must have decided I wasn’t completely incompetent, so we recorded some new demos in a Music School classroom. Or did the Bidding recording come after that? Maybe you should…look that up. That eventually became the Pingry EP? I don’t have it so I don’t know.

I was axed to help at various blind pig shows, and eventually some random…out-of-state shows. And then they asked me to come on tour with them several times*. Those were fun.”

*He went on tour with them as the band’s roadie.

Now, Bora can be found in Los Angeles engineering sound and has regular appearances on Tally Hall’s Internet Show. Bora is also a founding member of the now-on-indefinite-hiatus, Ann Arbor based, Metal/Jazz/Experimental band “Cojum Dip

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seven − four =

anonyMous was a comedy troupe that Joe was a part of (possibly was the founder of) while attending U of M.  Rob was also a member, as well as a couple other friendly faces we see scattered around Tally Hall’s videos.

In fact, many of Tally Hall’s earlier videos were actually taken from a movie called Sargasm, which if I remember correctly, was a compilation of many different anonyMous sketches… not unlike Tally Hall’s Internet Show.

Most people become familiar with anonyMous after watching the music video for Break It Down, which is often credited to Tally Hall, even though it technically is not a Tally Hall song.*

*In 2006 Tally Hall did rewrite this song, adding in a chorus and basically made it into a standard pop song. They played it a couple times, but it quickly disappeared from their set.  No word on if it will reappear but it does seem to be a favorite amongst Tally Hall fans.

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four × 4 =

Full question: I was watching episode 6 of Tally Hall’s Internet Show (the one about Mary Kate and Ashley) and I heard a catchy little song during the scene where they’re driving down the road in their van. I was wondering if you guys know what the name of that song was, who it’s by, or if it’s a Tally Hall piece.

Boy, this song is piquing the interests of many Tally Hall fans! Not surprising, though, due to the many similarities in this song and Tally Hall’s songs.
It’s not Tally Hall, however. It’s a song called Various Kitchen Utensils by the band Skybox. (http://www.myspace.com/skybox)

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3 − 2 =

This is news to me… unless you meant this 2007 Los Angeles Animation Festival contest which provided professional footage of themselves singing for which contestants can take it, edit it and add animation, then submit it.

http://www.kachew.com/clients/rockinanimation/tallyhall.html (link dead)
Some details provided here, though: http://www.asifa-hollywood.org/labels/laaf.html 

Unfortunately, it seems the winner’s videos were never posted… so only time will tell how the contest ended.

* UPDATE:  There’s still never been any word on the winner or their final video, but the raw footage has been posted on HITS Galleries: http://www.hiddeninthesand.com/gallery/v/video/takenforaride_raw.html

*UPDATE 2: The entire video has surfaced! But the creator has decided to edit it back to an excerpt for some reason. So here’s where the link is: http://vimeo.com/49273234

*UPDATE 3: The video has been found and uploaded to YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F6QBYoBqnE

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20 − 18 =

Full question:
“In the Tally Hall video, “whoops,” why is the joerilla in the bathroom so embarrassed when his pants drop to the floor given that 1) the other gorilla is totally naked, but isn’t at embarrassed and 2) gorillas don’t wear pants. Also, if the first joerilla is so embarrassed about being seen naked, why doesn’t he respond to the not one, but TWO series of knocks on the bathroom door, which were clearly done to give anybody/anything inside the opportunity to let the knocker know the bathroom was occupied?”

Well of course the chicken crossed the road to get to the other side.

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5 × 5 =

Technically, it’s Andrew. You can see this in the video entitled “Sorry, Al!” when Rob pops up from behind the coffee table and exclaims “Oh my god! Where’s Colonel Popcorn?!” and the camera pans out the window of the apartment to the rooftop of a nearby building. Andrew starts running around frantically, hiding from who-knows-what. The origins of Colonel Popcorn are unknown.

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2 × two =

It’s theirs. Directed by Joe (red tie), Banana Man was originally made as an assignment for school. Once it hit the ‘net, though, it quickly became one of the biggest reasons for Tally Hall’s internet fame.

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18 − 4 =

Website FAQs (3)

There used to be an easter egg. There is no longer.

There used to be a cellphone sticking out of Zubin’s shirt pocket. If you clicked on it, you were presented with the option of giving HITS your name and phone number. The database was accessible by Tally Hall who would occasionally call people on the list while they were out on tour. It was dubbed a “Tally Call.”

There was another much less impressive easter egg during one of the incarnations of the site design. If you clicked the ties in the header image, the background of the site would change to that tie color.

Category: Website FAQs

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seventeen − two =

Well, I (Coz) started the Official LiveJournal community for the band.  It took off and I often wondered if I should build a real fansite.  I figured I had all the necessary info on the LJ though and it was free, so why pay for a big ol’ website?  Well, the fans on the forums spoke up and they decided it would be great to have a real fansite for Tally Hall.  So I decided to set out on building the ultimate Tally Hall fan headquarters.

This site is constantly evolving and really relies on the input by its visitors, the fans of Tally Hall.

Category: Website FAQs

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three × 1 =

Well, the site is run by the fans.  They provide me the content with which to fill it up.  Now, if you’re wondering who “me” is, then the answer is Coz.  I built the site and act as administrator over it. You can find out more about me at www.cozbaldwin.com.  In the future, more administrators may be added.

If you need to contact me, please visit the contact page.  Thanks for visiting and I hope you enjoy it!

Category: Website FAQs

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four + 5 =

Out of Date Questions (8)

After it was asked through the HITS Formspring I got really curious as to what the deal is with all of that stuff.  So I went to Tally Hall’s manager at The Hornblow Group and asked about it. His answer couldn’t have done a better job explaining it so I will quote him here:

“If it were easy to license your music to Rock Band, Guitar Hero, etc. Tally Hall would have done it.

However, there are many factors at play on the business end (e.g. sales estimates by the company, cost to license the song, cost to create/program the song, how familiar they believe gamers are with the artist).  In cases where they don’t come to the band, it’s a matter of the label (Atlantic) or publisher (Tally Hall) getting strong on them.

Hornblow has licensed tracks for other artists for games of that sort, and believe you me the amount they pay isn’t much, nor does the exposure amount to much.  But that isn’t to say the band would decline if ever offered.”

I have also been informed by a fan through Twitter of a thing called The Rock Band Network.  Harmonix sends a kit to the artist who then maps their songs for the game.  I’m guessing this could at least get their songs available for purchase through the game’s online store, but not part of the game’s official track list (better than nothing, though!).  Plus, with all the business side of things we just learned about, it might be easier for indie bands than it is for signed bands to do such a thing.

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8 + 3 =

In an interview with hiddeninthesand.com, Joe talks about how they’re brainstorming ideas and formats for the successor to the Internet Show.  The way it’s worded makes me think they’re not thinking in terms of just “the internet” being the medium for the next show.  We shall see.

Surely, at some point in the future they hope to be able to do it.  Just how it’s done remains to be seen.  At the very least, as long as they’re a band, I can’t see them not ever putting out more funny videos for our amusement.

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13 + five =

Ludo has been very outspoken of their hatred towards Tally Hall (whom, I might add, remains the “better man” in this fight and hasn’t made any public statement about Ludo in any way). But no one really knew why.

So, Tally Hall forumer “Mallies” recently ran into Ludo bandmember Tim Convy after a Ludo show and she asked him why her two favorite bands hate each other.

“I asked him why Ludo and Tally Hall, my favorite two bands in the whole world, had to be feuding. He said it was a long story and that they were the devil. But being the former policy debater I am, I demanded good reasons.

Here are the two main reasons why Ludo hates Tally Hall:
Convy claims that Tally Hall stole the ties idea from them! (How scandalous!)  But my favorite part was when Convy began telling me about how three members of Tally Hall used to be in Ludo (back in its glory 8-member days) but were stolen from them by Joe… using his dark evil Tally Hall magic. Apparently, Andrew, Rob, and Zubin are former members of Ludo. I learn something new every day! 🙂

These outlandish stories coupled with him being nice to Amber and I despite us having interrupted his getting food, capped off my very awesome night.”

Thanks, Mallies!  Now we know.

Fun Fact: The members of Tally Hall are in the Ludo Video Thing Episode 13. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7EsRChKP5MQ)

In December of 2018, during a Reddit AMA, the subject was brought up again and Ross replied “They’re jerks.

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10 − 4 =

** THE FOLLOWING IS NOT AN OFFICIAL ANSWER**

There has only been one show I’ve known Tally Hall to deny the audience the right to bring cameras/videocameras into a venue.  I would imagine they will excercise that right now and then, but it’s impossible to know when.

If you’re referring to professionally mic’ing the venue or patching into the board and recording the audio directly from there, you’ll have to ask the venue and most likely check with Tally Hall’s management, too.

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12 + ten =

There’s lots of great ringtones on HITS Galleries, in the Audio section.

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1 + thirteen =

There’s a couple points I’d like to make about this.

First off, questions about Tally Hall merchandise (past, present, and future) can most likely only be answered by the band or someone involved in the Tally Hall camp.  You can contact them through their website at www.tallyhall.com.

That said, I can tell you that Tally Hall makes great efforts to always stay fresh and new with everything they do.  If they feel that design has run its course, then I guarantee another new and clever design will be replacing it.  Their latest batch of shirts seemed to dwindle short as their tour was running down so perhaps they tried to order accordingly and ran out of some things earlier than others.  It’s possible they may bring it back but I believe they have also been working on new designs, too.

If you want a design back, flood the band with requests for it!  (One per person, please.  They get a ton of email already.)

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3 × 1 =

The song you heard was probably either a cover song (Tally Hall has gone off on limbs such as “Blinded by the Light”, “You’re Just What I Needed”, “Praise You” and “Just A Friend”) or a public test of a preliminary version of a song. In fact, there are even lyric sheets to one such song which, confirmed by Andrew, was performed once prior to Tally Hall forming, and then never used again. Tally Hall reserves their albums for only the best songs.

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11 + 3 =

Here is a key to what the most well-known words of the Tally Hall community (forums) mean…

Key to key:
Word / part of speech / Definition / sample sentence / Creator of word


Cawezome adj. As awesome as Coz. You are going to live with Tally Hall? That’s cawezome! Jennie

Hawesome adj. As awesome as Joe Hawley. That Banana Man video is hawesome. Jennie (and others)

Chawesome adj. As awesome as Coz and Joe Hawley combined. YOU’RE MARRYING ROB?! THAT’S FREAKING CHAWESOME! Jennie (and others)

Surdoz adj. Dirty beyond the stature of Coz. Put Jennie and Joanne in Michigan for a week and you’re bound to get a surdoz result. Jennie and Joanne

Zubin n. The sexiest thing known to mankind. He is definately a Zubin. Unknown

Rubindrosoe n. 1. All of the talligans. 2. Heh heh heh… I want the shirt for Rubindrosoe. Jennie

Talligans n. The members of Tally Hall. I ran into the Talligans at a Borders once… Jennie

Halligans n. The fans of Tally Hall. Us halligans are some cool cats! Jennie

Coz 1.n. A very lucky man. He won the lottery? What a coz! 2.adj. Dirty. Mr. Moon is quite coz. Jennie and Joanne

PIE n. The era of the forums before the Super-City-State of Insanity was founded by Jennie and Sputnik. (Pre Insanity Era) I think Oliver really likes the PIE. Jennie

MIME n. The era of the forums during the hype of Insanity and MMMM. (Mid-Insanity/Marvins Era) The MIME was known for its Revs. Jennie

Rev n. A giant surge in posting, a revolution. The JS Rev was the first of the craze. Jennie and Sputnik

PIMP n. The era of the forums after Insanity died down, people became conscious of their post counts, and people started talking about new Tally material to present. (Post-Insanity/Marvins to Present) This post right here- this is PIMP. Jennie

Wordennie n. The fact that Jennie makes up a lot of words. This post is here because of wordennie. Jennie? NAH.
More information: http://www.tallyhall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20656#20656

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4 × five =

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